Arbitration Motion granted, but we must initiate!! HELP!

[Baggins]

JAMS Demand for Arbitration form header:

Instructions for Submittal of Arbitration to JAMS
Demand for Arbitration Based on Pre-Dispute Provision
If you wish to proceed with an arbitration by executing and serving a Demand for Arbitration on the appropriate party, please submit the following items to JAMS:
A. Two (2) copies of the Demand for Arbitration
B. Proof of service of the Demand on the appropriate party
E.g., copy of certified mail receipt signed by recipient or sworn statement of service by a non-party over 18 years of age.
C. Two (2) copies of the entire contract containing the arbitration clause
D. Initial non-refundable $400 Case Management Fee (CMF) per party
Each party may submit its own CMF, or to expedite the commencement of the proceedings one party may elect to submit both or all CMFs. In lengthier, more complex cases additional CMF may be billed. For cases involving consumers, see JAMS Policy on Consumer Arbitrations Pursuant to Pre-Dispute Clauses.

[trueq]

Initiate as instructed.

Send your complaint with initiation.

DO NOT PAY.

JAMS will "bill" you the $250 60-90 days later. You can sit on the initial bill for 45 days before they send you a certified copy of bill.

I then filed for JAMS fee waiver.

That wastes a good 6 months...and gives you time...Cap1 will ask you what you want to resolve your concerns.

I was demanding big money. However, they may be willing to "call it even" vs. paying for arbitration.

PM me with your email and I will send you my JAMS complaint against CAp1.

What you do with it is up to you, I am not rendering legal advice, just telling you what a hard nosed, mean spirited, litigator like me would do!

I also have JAMS consumer fee waiver form if needed! Its NOT on JAMS web site.

[david9041]

Originally Posted by trueq

Initiate as instructed.

Send your complaint with initiation.

DO NOT PAY.

JAMS will "bill" you the $250 60-90 days later. You can sit on the initial bill for 45 days before they send you a certified copy of bill.

I then filed for JAMS fee waiver.

That wastes a good 6 months...and gives you time...Cap1 will ask you what you want to resolve your concerns.

I was demanding big money. However, they may be willing to "call it even" vs. paying for arbitration.

PM me with your email and I will send you my JAMS complaint against CAp1.

What you do with it is up to you, I am not rendering legal advice, just telling you what a hard nosed, mean spirited, litigator like me would do!

I also have JAMS consumer fee waiver form if needed! Its NOT on JAMS web site.

I want to find out is why they have the right to request a stay and if I don't react in 60 days the stay is lifted ? If there is a fixed time limit , where do we find it ?


NOTE arbitration has been had in accordance with the terms of the agreement ( the agreement does not say anything about 60 day limit )
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Federal Arbitration Act. 9 U.S.C. §§ 1-16 (2000).
§ 3. Stay of proceedings where issue therein referable to arbitration

If any suit or proceeding be brought in any of the courts of the United States upon any issue referable to arbitration under an agreement in writing for such arbitration, the court in which such suit is pending, upon being satisfied that the issue involved in such suit or proceeding is referable to arbitration under such an agreement, shall on application of one of the parties stay the trial of the action until such arbitration has been had in accordance with the terms of the agreement, providing the applicant for the stay is not in default in proceeding with such arbitration.

[lilq]

PM me with your email and I will send you my JAMS complaint against CAp1.

Thanks trueq!!! You are helping a lot of people right now who would have signed their lives away to a scumbag debt attorney.

Recovering attorney asked why I was doing this to stall or force a settlement. We actually offered a settlement before this started. They agreed but then asked for our financial life story before and I wouldn't give it to them. They don't need to know that just take the money.
When we got to court I watched as people went up to him one by one and signed his paper. I overheard one guy say he was unemployed but waiting for disability but he would try to pay and he signed. I was sickened by it. And infuriated that part of the court process makes the consumer talk to the plainitiff's lawyer before seeing the judge as if it's a required part of the process. When we refused to speak to him, he got mad to say the least.

Credit Card companies are evil. I truly believe that and they've helped destroy this economy by never allowing people to pay off their debt and keeping them enslaved for years after they have paid the debt off 10fold. (How many times does their late payment push people over their credit limit and accrue more charges?????) I want to fight them. I'm not giving up easily.

Also guys, I've bookmarked the jams site and all of their forms are in word or pdf so you can print them and at the bottom of the forms is a number to call for the waiver fee form. But I won't pay until they bill me.
One of the things that stupid lawyer said was we would have to pay the fees. Boy, he's dumb and in for a rude awakening.

[Baggins]

2009 JAMS consumer standards:

1. The arbitration agreement must be reciprocally binding on all parties such that: A) if a consumer is required to arbitrate his or her claims or all claims of a certain type, the company is so bound; and, B) no party shall be precluded from seeking remedies in small claims court for disputes or claims within the scope of its jurisdiction.

Doesn't this mean the right to litigation can continue?

1 These standards are applicable where a company systematically places an arbitration clause in its agreements with individual consumers and there is minimal, if any, negotiation between the parties as to the procedures or other terms of the arbitration clause. A consumer is defined as an individual who seeks or acquires any goods or services, primarily for personal family or household purposes, including the credit transactions associated with such purchases, or personal banking transactions. These standards do not apply to the use of arbitration in resolving disputes arising from commercial transactions between a lender and commercial borrowers or a company and commercial customers, other financial services such as investment transactions, real estate transactions, or to matters involving underinsured motorists. Nor do they apply if the agreement to arbitrate was negotiated by the individual consumer and the company.

I take the last underlined sentence to mean if there isn't an arbitration clause in writing, correct?

[trueq]

That's the thing people don't understand with JAMS! If your income is under 300% Federal Poverty Level (which is a healthy annual number), JAMS does not cost consumer anything.

Bank pays.

Even if you are above 300% FPL, $150 is max outlay for arbitration.

Studies show consumer wins 54% of the time, which is more than court.

NAF was .2% in favor of consumer.

JAMS does not do debt collection arbitration, so there is not a systematic debt collection "volume" bias, like NAF!

Stay 60 days...Court has "froze" case for 60 days...nothing that can happen during that time. If you show court you "initiated with JAMS, by sending them a copy of paperwork, court than usually stays permanently "pending outcome of arbitration."

If you do not initiate in 60 days, court will lift stay and litigation will continue.

[trueq]

Baggins....

that means JAMS will not take the case if JAMS considers arbitration clause a screw of consumer's rights!

If JAMS rejects because contratual arbitration clause is onerous...it does not negate your right to arbitrate.

Last line means, consumers are too stupid to Negotiate this on their own and they will not do it if consumer and company negotiated the clause. THIS NEVER HAPPENS.

[bevj2]

And I am a little confused as to what to do if the court orders the defendant, who is electing arbitration per the agreement, to initiate the claim.

As was mentioned in an earlier post in this this thread, how can the defendant initiate the plaintiff's claim???? Unless we're in bizzarro world or something - Judge, this person wants to sue me so I think I will help them along and even pay the cost to get things started....

If the situation was reversed, and I was suing Crap1 for whatever reason, and their attorney "elected" arbitration, would the judge order THEM to initiate everything??

[RebelLady]

Originally Posted by bevj2

And I am a little confused as to what to do if the court orders the defendant, who is electing arbitration per the agreement, to initiate the claim.

As was mentioned in an earlier post in this this thread, how can the defendant initiate the plaintiff's claim???? Unless we're in bizzarro world or something - Judge, this person wants to sue me so I think I will help them along and even pay the cost to get things started....

If the situation was reversed, and I was suing Crap1 for whatever reason, and their attorney "elected" arbitration, would the judge order THEM to initiate everything??

That was my point exactly. So now we're expected to initiate as well as fund the CA's claim against us? How ludicrous is that one? I mean, who initiated the litigation? Shouldn't that be the one required to initiate the arbitration, too? I mean, come on people...let's get real here...

RL

[david9041]

Trueq , the arbitration act does not state 60 days , where do they come up with a time limit . The motion they filed states "Upon notification by the Defendant to this Court that arbitration has been initiated ,plaintiff will submit a notice of voluntary dismissal "

Initiated would be the filing with JAM's correct ?



Stay 60 days...Court has "froze" case for 60 days...nothing that can happen during that time. If you show court you "initiated with JAMS, by sending them a copy of paperwork, court than usually stays permanently "pending outcome of arbitration."

[trueq]

This is why its important to tell judge, in his stay order, "Mr. certified professional bar lawyer over here should do the initiating."

"A pro se' litigant can't be expected to navigate such a complex legal process!"

If judge orders you to initiate arbitration anyway....

THATS WHEN YOU HIT MONSTER MEGA BANK WITH A BIG INITIAL CLAIM, IN THE INITIATION PROCESS! Do not even mention their claim....you are not obligated to forward their claim for them....after all, they whined to have consumer initate....the consumer doesn't know and can't be expected to know how to practice law for giant mega bank.

Almost anything goes in arbitration! Including huge claims against bank!

This forces Cap1 to face your claim only! In theory, JAMS, if chief legal counsel, Jay Welsh, is true to his 9/29/09 FTC testimony/rountable discussion, should reject any counterclaim for the debt because JAMS "doesn't do debt collection." If they accept monster mega bank debt collection counter claim, I will be suing JAMS for deceptive trade practice.

So if you run into a lemon judge....make lemonade.

That's what I did!

[bevj2]

Originally Posted by trueq

This is why its important to tell judge, in his stay order, "Mr. certified professional bar lawyer over here should do the initiating."

"A pro se' litigant can't be expected to navigate such a complex legal process!"

If judge orders you to initiate arbitration anyway....

THATS WHEN YOU HIT MONSTER MEGA BANK WITH A BIG INITIAL CLAIM, IN THE INITIATION PROCESS! Do not even mention their claim....you are not obligated to forward their claim for them....after all, they whined to have consumer initate....the consumer doesn't know and can't be expected to know how to practice law for giant mega bank.

Almost anything goes in arbitration! Including huge claims against bank!

This forces Cap1 to face your claim only! In theory, JAMS, if chief legal counsel, Jay Welsh, is true to his 9/29/09 FTC testimony/rountable discussion, should reject any counterclaim for the debt because JAMS "doesn't do debt collection." If they accept monster mega bank debt collection counter claim, I will be suing JAMS for deceptive trade practice.

So if you run into a lemon judge....make lemonade.

That's what I did!

Okay, so say that happens, judge orders defendant to initiate claim, and I do so with a claim against OC for whatever, but the original claim of plaintiff is not even addressed. Can the plaintiff then come back to court and say defendant did not comply with court order because the arbitration claim initiated by defendant had nothing to do with the original dispute/lawsuit of the plaintiff against defendant? Note - this scenario is with the original OC, not a JDB. Thoughts???

[david9041]

Bevj2 , interesting point , mayby we should address their claim and then file a claim against them

Repost----- Default Trueq
Trueq , the arbitration act does not state 60 days , where do they come up with a time limit . The motion they filed states "Upon notification by the Defendant to this Court that arbitration has been initiated ,plaintiff will submit a notice of voluntary dismissal "

Initiated would be the filing with JAM's correct ?



Stay 60 days...Court has "froze" case for 60 days...nothing that can happen during that time. If you show court you "initiated with JAMS, by sending them a copy of paperwork, court than usually stays permanently "pending outcome of arbitration."

[bevj2]

Originally Posted by david9041

Bevj2 , interesting point , mayby we should address their claim and then file a claim against them"

What if I have no claim? They're suing me....I'm not suing them! And, in my situation, I can't think of anything to sue them for. They have done nothing wrong.....yet.....

[scardKaren]

Originally Posted by bevj2

What if I have no claim? They're suing me....I'm not suing them! And, in my situation, I can't think of anything to sue them for. They have done nothing wrong.....yet.....

Think harder.

[scardKaren]

Originally Posted by david9041

Bevj2 , interesting point , mayby we should address their claim and then file a claim against them

Repost----- Default Trueq
Trueq , the arbitration act does not state 60 days , where do they come up with a time limit . The motion they filed states "Upon notification by the Defendant to this Court that arbitration has been initiated ,plaintiff will submit a notice of voluntary dismissal "

Initiated would be the filing with JAM's correct ?



Stay 60 days...Court has "froze" case for 60 days...nothing that can happen during that time. If you show court you "initiated with JAMS, by sending them a copy of paperwork, court than usually stays permanently "pending outcome of arbitration."

The judge orders the time limit. It's not in the contract. In theory you could take years to initiate...

Interesting thought tho... Assuming you can get the court to order the CA to initiate... Why not try to set a time limit for the CA to file the arbitration clause? Then have it thrown out of court after they fail.

Edited to add. I would not say one word about their claim. It's not my job. For the same reason I don't let myself into my friends house and do her laundry... And I like my friend... Now that I think about it, doing my friends laundry is a much better use of my time than doing work for a CA.

[david9041]

Originally Posted by scardKaren

The judge orders the time limit. It's not in the contract. In theory you could take years to initiate...

Interesting thought tho... Assuming you can get the court to order the CA to initiate... Why not try to set a time limit for the CA to file the arbitration clause? Then have it thrown out of court after they fail.

I am thinging way outside the box , when I elected Arbitration their right to court action stopped , they could not motion to stay and request a time limit if their right to court action had ended before they put in their motion .

They would be moving forward , I would think they would have to dismiss , but then I seen in the Arbitration Act that a stay was normal . Even the court would have to get that 60 day rule from some place . I was thinking about demanding the same amount they took to bring action after the alleged default ( 2 years )

[KentWA]

Originally Posted by bevj2

Okay, so say that happens, judge orders defendant to initiate claim, and I do so with a claim against OC for whatever, but the original claim of plaintiff is not even addressed. Can the plaintiff then come back to court and say defendant did not comply with court order because the arbitration claim initiated by defendant had nothing to do with the original dispute/lawsuit of the plaintiff against defendant? Note - this scenario is with the original OC, not a JDB. Thoughts???

Would not matter one bit, once you file your claim it is forwarded to the opposing side and they get the chance to answer and file counter claims. That is their oppurtunity to make their case.

[trueq]

except for one wrinkle....

JAMS does not do debt collection arbitration! If they file a counter, you can MTD in arbitration quoting JAMS legal counsel!

Court ordered you to initiate. You did that.

You ARE NOT REQUIRED TO BE LAWYER FOR CAP1. If Cap1 lawyers think this is unfair, they should have been a better advocate for their client and they should have initiated.

WHEN YOU CONTROL THE ARBITRATION INITATION PROCESS....

YOU CONTROL THE NARRATIVE....

USE THIS POWER...THE OTHER SIDE WAS STUPID ENOUGH TO GRANT YOU THIS POWER...

USE IT....

THIS CASE IS NOW ABOUT YOUR DAMAGE, SUFFERING, AND THE EVILS OF THE GIANT MONSTER MEGA BANK....

don't worry about their claim...worry about how big your claim will be!

Things to sue them for: the acts of their lawyer agents under FDCPA, fraudulent FCRA reporting, truth in lending act violations, federal deceptive trade practices, state deceptive trade practices, state consumer law violations, civil RICO, harrassment tort, negligent training and supervison tort, fraud tort, negligence, invasion of privaccy, etc. etc.

My favorite is state consumer laws and state deceptive trade practice laws....those always have a lower burden for person making claim.

Arbitration is the chance to be "re-born" and "litigate it right" with the discussion about your check, not their check!

[lilq]

I had some funny thoughts about what to say to a judge if the plaintiff were to object to you not forwarding their claim in arbitration:

Well, gee judge. I just wasn't sure I could do their claim justice the way they could.

Well, gosh judge, I tried to write up their claim for you, but seriously I have no idea what their claim is.

Well Judge, here's the deal, I'm afraid if I would have had to write up their claim for them, it wouldn't be up to their standards. You see, for some crazy reason, I don't want them to win.

You know all of these statements make it crystal clear why it is ludicrous to expect the defendant to forward their own claim against themself.

Also, and this is a big one. If Cap one is so worried that defendant will get a stay and then not initiate, so worried in fact that they make sure the judge only stays the case for 30 days, there is a very simple solution to this that would make going back to court and wasting more of the courts time on a case that the judge will never litigate unnessary. You know what it is????? ORDER THE PLAINTIFF TO FORWARD THEIR OWN CASE PERMANENTLY STAY THE CASE AND PUT THE MATTER BEFORE THE COURT TO REST. The more I think about it, neither one of these guys are rocket scientists.